| View previous topic :: View next topic |
| Author |
Message |
Ams Jendob
Moff
Joined: 14 Jun 2009
Posts: 1579
Location: The Gala
|
 Posted: Tue, July 27th 2010 12:08am Post subject: Star Wars Episode VIII: Binds of Tyranny |
|
|
It's been about a year since Episode VIII was formally put to bed (a few weeks before Unity properly opened  ). When Unity began, I was honestly confused about how to possibly run an assetless game with factions, or to settle disputed battles without my long, painfully-detailed spec sheets.
In the intervening year, kicking around this RP idea and that—ostensibly to satisfy my number-lust—I came to realize that while I enjoyed the aspects of leadership, assembling fleets and armies and outfitting them... it killed the game, in part. Many other elements also contributed to the ultimate downfall, including the general atmosphere of conquest and domination that ultimately bled out of the game and into out-of-character interactions—and various stages of numeric control versus administrative control ultimately lead to something increasingly unwieldy on the admin end and unusable on the player end. It promoted awful levels of power-playing; breakneck arms races (seriously... our Supership Race outstripped the Cold War nuke race  ); scaling issues between the PT, OT, and real life military scenarios that led to planets held confidently by a regiment or unapologetically by millions of troops... once, someone even said they'd simply raise a billion soldiers (...Okay, it was VVD ) if attacked, or just launch giant waves to conquer the whole Galaxy. And it would've been legal! 
I know a lot of people suffered some rather severe cases of character derailment and detachment, including admins. Honestly, Zara and I are the only CMAC members who liked our main characters (and I had three ) when all was said and done. And yet, I can't help feeling a little nostalgia... some kind of notion that, if only we'd gotten the economy and battlesystem right... if only we'd been able to change the focus... if only... if only... if only...
Then I usually realize the whole thing had a set of fatal flaws and we were very lucky to extract the four years from the series that we did.
So, old VII/I vets... feelings?
_________________
Emperor Ams Jendob, Ruler of the Imperial Remnant
----"Moff", CMAC Dreamcrusher, Official Administrative Waldorf and Statler---- |
|
| Back to top » |
|
 |
Lucas Pallanén-Davad
Alex
Joined: 01 Aug 2009
Posts: 1153
Location: Aboard the Blight Leaper
|
| Posted: Tue, July 27th 2010 12:22am Post subject: |
|
|
I miss VIII.
It was a lot of things, but mostly good memories for me. I miss having Arlyn as the scourge of the Empire. |
|
| Back to top » |
|
|
Morgan ZIM
Space Jawa
Joined: 01 Oct 2009
Posts: 536
Location: I am here -> *
|
| Posted: Tue, July 27th 2010 12:28am Post subject: |
|
|
While I had fun with the old boards while I was there, the way things were set up did kind of kill my interest in the end. So I do think it was for the best that the old boards were retired for something new and (hopefully) better.
_________________
Morgan ZIM: Bounty Hunter, Gun for Hire, Freelance Peacekeeping Agent, Cybernetic Scoundrel, and all around disruptor of the normal order of things. |
|
| Back to top » |
|
|
Thomas Heckler
Butters
Joined: 07 Jul 2010
Posts: 150
Location: Not where you think... aboard the Elusive!
|
| Posted: Tue, July 27th 2010 12:37am Post subject: |
|
|
I know how you feel. I will always miss those times, especially the new superweapon VVD would always find and try to take over the galaxy with. But, seriously, it was those times when we would have a serious connection between our character and the story that made us all truly happy and that I can only say we have thankfully preserved in the shifting series. There were fatal flaws, but it is what it is. Nostalgia is what brought me back and it is what is keeping me here. (I will miss those days of unabashed ruthless planetary conquest, but you can't have your cake and eat it to. )
_________________
Captain of the Elusive, MC-90 Star Cruiser
 |
|
| Back to top » |
|
|
Maximillion Cyrus
dudop
Joined: 20 Jul 2009
Posts: 244
|
| Posted: Tue, July 27th 2010 12:41am Post subject: |
|
|
I liked having a structure that told me what I could do, so I don't have to make the call all the time. Of course now, my problem is more like pushing myself off the ground. 
And I never noticed the hostile atmosphere you mentioned, I would probably have just been that weird guy who shoots TIE fighters for great justice forever. From a personal mission control in a barge.  |
|
| Back to top » |
|
|
Ams Jendob
Moff
Joined: 14 Jun 2009
Posts: 1579
Location: The Gala
|
| Posted: Tue, July 27th 2010 01:05am Post subject: |
|
|
And probably wouldn't like it when those TIE Fighters shot you.
I mean, one of the big goals was that it would be totally fair to all factions: X-Wings didn't win out because they were flown by good guys while TIEs died en masse at the hands of evil pilots... or vice versa, where "bad always won because good was dumb." Some people didn't always see at that way, and I know some people never really got the idea that, no, an ISD isn't an easy kill for a lone X-Wing. *cough*Onasi*cough*
But, on the technical side... well, according to "canon"... a TIE is slower than a modern jet fighter, while a 30-year old out-of-production fighter can do Mach 40. Do fighter lasers threaten capital ship armor? Zahn says no, Allston and XWA say yes... what if there are lots of them? But what if it's one? How far should the guns shoot, ten miles or ten light minutes? How many hits can a droideka take to its shield? Clone Wars says X, Battlefront says Y, TPM says Z, RotS says Q, and this SI-indexed source says W. Should a blaster kill with a single hit? What if they have armor? What if they have Stormtrooper armor? What about enhanced Stormtrooper armor, or a blast vest, or Mandalorian armor, or they're streaking? What if they're a scantily clad Twi'lek female, who seem resistant to blaster burns while DC-series weapons burn holes into Jedi males throughout ROTS? How can a Naboo diplomatic barge have a shield output twice its peak power output? What would that even mean? How many CIS ships does it take to match an ISD-I? Or a Mark II? Is it one or two? Is it ten? A thousand? How many ISDs to take an Executor? A thousand? A hundred? What decides? What about the differing figures for sizes? How can a TIE Interceptor be 9.6 meters long and have the same-size cockpit as a TIE/ln? What DOES MGLT mean in SI units?
If that's one tenth of one percent of the tech questions... I'd say I'm high-balling it. Then you have the economic ones, balance ones, what to do when the Empire is launching fleets of medium and heavy cruisers to be "fair", while everyone else is massing giant battleship and super-dreadnought forces? Why should we approve this blatant one-up design... and yet, why shouldn't we? Does this crossover go too far? Is this a godmod or just something that should be really expensive? How do we give the bounty hunters something to do? Oh God, why is Zekk back again?
Yet, I honestly have this twisted compulsion to keep doing the AU Endor thing—despite being SCREAMED DOWN --or some other numeric econo-battle system-controlled game... even though Unity is BEAUTIFULLY showing how well simple administrative arbitration works. A D1 system, so to speak, instead of d6/10/12/20. I dunno. I love Unity, don't get me wrong... but the tech-geek, engineer, and scientist in me sees the beauty in an AT-TEs five gigajoule laser cannons, and their 11-meter human-kill radius... or, perhaps drag the game so far beyond the canon time periods that you can avoid the overlapping and contradictory standards. But what then? You basically have to reinvent Star Wars from the ground up. New blasters, speeders, fighters, bombers, ships, companies... maybe some zombies on Coruscant for good measure... bullets or blasters, nukes or baradium... magical metallurgy miracles or real-world materials... you guys wonder why I'm half-crazy. <_<
| Quote: | | I know how you feel. I will always miss those times, especially the new superweapon VVD would always find and try to take over the galaxy with. |
...Oh, yeah. Totally miss that. And the character cycling. "Oh, I can't take control of the game with this guy? K. *throws him out a window and signs up something more powerful*
I just hated that mentality, especially toward the end. Yet, that's exactly what the game itself encouraged, no matter how much CMAC protested.
| Quote: | | But, seriously, it was those times when we would have a serious connection between our character and the story that made us all truly happy and that I can only say we have thankfully preserved in the shifting series. |
Well, this game more or less distills it all down TO those moments, so... eeeeeeeee. 
| Quote: | | I miss having Arlyn as the scourge of the Empire. |
Only to have Palpatine dismiss her like a gnat at the Ball.
| Quote: | | I liked having a structure that told me what I could do, so I don't have to make the call all the time. Of course now, my problem is more like pushing myself off the ground. |
Honestly, I think that's what made the Empire shoot to the top. I said this then and I will say it again now: every credit, every ship, every planet, every trooper, every grenade, every design... 110% legit. I even took out funds retroactively, like when we started research fees to curb the flood of superships... the first thing I did was take out fifty billion for the Akula project. It wasn't required by the rule, CMAC, or anything. But we still arguably "won" (we pretty much were the leading superpower ) the nationsim aspect because we operated like an actual government, with spheres of command, a followed rank structure, standardized units and formations, and an open and frank discussion of tactics, strategy, and where to shift resources. We had the organization and manpower; a lot of smaller factions lacked the latter, and our chief foe—no offense guys, I wouldn't trade the world for you --lacked the former, even despite efforts to instill some order.
Granted, the Alliance leaders had more than a few hurdles to overcome, too. The Empire is a very clearly defined setup: Emperor>All. The Alliance... well, you had attempts at democracy, command economy, and Monty Python Jedi. All at once.
Plus, let's face it... Brote and I were likely the only ones who liked doing the asset updates and bureaucratic micromanaging... and I'm assuming about Brote. <_< I mean, I was updating assets weekly for the Empire and Rebellion at the end. Didn't bug me. But really, who actually enjoys balancing a checkbook? Games are fun escapes from the drudgery of normal life... not making you relive it on a grand scale week after week. 
So, basically... the game wound up tailored to the likes of one player and enforcing responsibilities he liked on others who were... less than receptive, to be nice about it. This is more laid back, freeform, and much less contentious. Still... now and then, I miss re-totalling the Imperial budget, marvelling at how many trailing zeroes I saw... and finding ways to spend it. Not even almost thirteen thousand combat ships, over fifteen thousand transports and freighters (yes, we bought non-combat vessels! ), 5.5 million pieces of naval ordnance, 28 Golan IIIs, over forty-two thousand orbital defense guns, eight million Stormtroopers, sixty-four million combat and support personnel in the Army, over six hundred thousand AT-ATs alone... legions of fighters... and every trooper, crewer, pilot, and officer having a blaster pistol or rifle could spend our damn money fast enough! Never mind the multi-billion credit research projects in everything from weapons to droids to starships to alternative communications systems. We even spent actual credits on "planetary improvement" (it improves some planet IC with no real impact on its value... just a way to dump some bloody credits!). So, it basically showed the merits of the system early on... but once VIII began and you had an entire year of unspent money... it showed the many weaknesses. Namely that a faction could simply accumulate such wealth that the wealth became a game breaker. And that's a really bad thing.
When VII began, the factions were poor and cash-strapped. That was the idea: no giant armies flashed into existence because the cash to equip them wouldn't exist. The Empire would be able to afford an ISD every six months... as opposed to about a hundred a week by the end of VIII. Ships would've been valuable, to be protected and repaired whenever possible. Weapons, vehicles, and equipment would've been scavenged from the field after a battle... but cash didn't come in fast enough. So we changed to the population-based tax system. No one needed to scavenge or raid or repair. ISDs became cannon-fodder, thousand-ship assault fleets were bandied about without care. Then the superships came... and things slid WAY downhill. 
The second half of VIII was basically about atonement and trying to save the game from being so broken. And, well... it was just too far gone. An economic reset would've done nothing, really. The power-plays and giant fleets would've continued in one form or another. I still am struggling with a way around that while still having people account for their ships and troops...
...I'm sorry, what was I talking about?
_________________
Emperor Ams Jendob, Ruler of the Imperial Remnant
----"Moff", CMAC Dreamcrusher, Official Administrative Waldorf and Statler---- |
|
| Back to top » |
|
|
Thomas Heckler
Butters
Joined: 07 Jul 2010
Posts: 150
Location: Not where you think... aboard the Elusive!
|
| Posted: Tue, July 27th 2010 02:13am Post subject: |
|
|
Haha... I always knew deep down you loved the world with more numbers and less feeling, but I never knew it was on the level of an obsession, you disappoint me Moffy.
I think the fact we're missing here is that in canon, otherwise what Lucas always intended, is that Star Wars never meant to be hard fiction. Its the fans like us who demanded it from him and we get things like Midi-chlorians for asking to much. A lot of Star Wars is about the characters and their adventures, not how the world works, that is what Star Trek does.
A system without technical controls, like a economic system or battle system with realistic conditions (BTW, I love the new battle system since it encourages creativity instead of a degree in physics ), has its own fatal flaws and could open up plotholes that could easily be identified. Without assets how can the factions coordinate fleets properly or understand strategic impact of where they send their ships (which is what an economic system is for)?
At least, I found it hard to jump in the role as Captain, but have no actual mission because no one cares about strategy anymore, making awkward situations like me warping into Bilbringi for no reason happen.
_________________
Captain of the Elusive, MC-90 Star Cruiser
|
|
| Back to top » |
|
|
Thomas Heckler
Butters
Joined: 07 Jul 2010
Posts: 150
Location: Not where you think... aboard the Elusive!
|
| Posted: Tue, July 27th 2010 03:04am Post subject: |
|
|
| Quote: | | Some people didn't always see at that way, and I know some people never really got the idea that, no, an ISD isn't an easy kill for a lone X-Wing. *cough*Onasi*cough* |
That is probably every flaw gone wrong I expected and feared while playing (I think I was pretty vocal about to ) and had some measure in why I left. I remember Onasi trying to take an ISD on in his X-Wing, I remember telling him "good luck" (knowing full well he would fail).
| Quote: | | Plus, let's face it... Brote and I were likely the only ones who liked doing the asset updates and bureaucratic micromanaging... and I'm assuming about Brote. <_< I mean, I was updating assets weekly for the Empire and Rebellion at the end. Didn't bug me. But really, who actually enjoys balancing a checkbook? Games are fun escapes from the drudgery of normal life... not making you relive it on a grand scale week after week. |
I wasn't the only one, Alex did to. Honestly, I loved tallying up my money, where else would I have been in charge of a faction I created from scratch that made billions (and I think at one point a trillion) credits a week? It was awesome, but I let it become the dominant part of the game for me. Indeed, when I look back, it wasn't my fault because the game had been designed that way while it tried to be something above that. I feel like I actually wasted Brote as a character because I had such a hunger for more power through my complete conquest of Microsoft Spreadsheet.
| Quote: | When VII began, the factions were poor and cash-strapped. That was the idea: no giant armies flashed into existence because the cash to equip them wouldn't exist. The Empire would be able to afford an ISD every six months... as opposed to about a hundred a week by the end of VIII. Ships would've been valuable, to be protected and repaired whenever possible. Weapons, vehicles, and equipment would've been scavenged from the field after a battle... but cash didn't come in fast enough. So we changed to the population-based tax system. No one needed to scavenge or raid or repair. ISDs became cannon-fodder, thousand-ship assault fleets were bandied about without care. Then the superships came... and things slid WAY downhill.
The second half of VIII was basically about atonement and trying to save the game from being so broken. And, well... it was just too far gone. An economic reset would've done nothing, really. The power-plays and giant fleets would've continued in one form or another. I still am struggling with a way around that while still having people account for their ships and troops... |
It was so much fun building up my factions, from nothing, into at least a small galactic power. I see now, that I'm wiser, it was fun while it lasted but a waste of a good story. I enjoyed the whole AU Battle of Endor idea, I don't know what everyone else is talking about. However, I feel indifferent toward bringing it back. What we do have now, while it is less realistic, seems to enforce itself rather than lead to players who change every other day so they can achieve galactic conquest.
If there was a way to integrate the story, the characters and the drama in a well-oiled number system (with considerable restraints), I'd gladly support it. I think one thing the old games have taught all of us is, we can not expect anything from people they don't want. In this game we want to call out godmodding because it could create plot holes, while in the old games godmodding seemed like the only alternative to stop the inevitable number crunch. I really don't want to see that return or the fractious way we would treat each other. That I absolutely do not miss. We are all friends here and should treat each other that way. We should all enjoy each others plots and work to make them more inclusive, not exclusive. Which I felt sometimes playing Brote Heckler and in charge of a large independent faction, but left out of the greater galactic theme. I like that we abandoned the rule for players to be restricted to one faction. I do miss the constant intrigue that an occasional leak from one camp to another would spark. Like when Alex got me busted and Brote had to answer for war crimes or something at one point. Spying on each other was such ridiculous tom foolery now that I think about it. I like we can talk frankly about our story lines now instead of hiding certain parts of them because eventually we were going to betray the other people who were participating in our stories to advance our own machinations. That doesn't create an environment of trust and friendship, even out of character we were suspicious and competing against each other.
I really don't want the game to be broken down to power plays, unless it is part of a well devised plot and story arc, to determine the direction of game. Who has the most powerful weapon, the most FS or the biggest fleet or better designs or more worlds. Raw creativity and art, that is what this should be about, making the world come alive, playing our part in it and interacting with each other through our characters... yeah... That is how it should be.
Now, I'm going off on tangents!
_________________
Captain of the Elusive, MC-90 Star Cruiser
|
|
| Back to top » |
|
|
Lucas Pallanén-Davad
Alex
Joined: 01 Aug 2009
Posts: 1153
Location: Aboard the Blight Leaper
|
| Posted: Tue, July 27th 2010 03:35am Post subject: |
|
|
I wouldn't say I busted you, but I had to shift loyalties when you suddenly converted to the Great White Tree, if I remember correctly.
VIII was a lot of fun, but I like the environment on Unity a little better. I would love to get some Imperial Remnant Plots going, I feel like that faction is slightly under-developed. (Though I enjoyed the crowning of the Emperor and Shayera's subsequent post... )
All in all, I'm glad to have been there, and now here. It's fun and the people are great. It's weird to have bonded to people I've never really seen, but it happened. |
|
| Back to top » |
|
|
Morgan ZIM
Space Jawa
Joined: 01 Oct 2009
Posts: 536
Location: I am here -> *
|
| Posted: Tue, July 27th 2010 03:40am Post subject: |
|
|
As far as numbers and canon go, I blame the Star Trek vs. Star Wars debates and their rediculous need to bring numbers into it. If they'd just been able to stick to "Death Star!""Torpedoes!""Lightsaber!""Phaser!" and the like and kept it light hearted...but nope, they had to turn it into serious business.
_________________
Morgan ZIM: Bounty Hunter, Gun for Hire, Freelance Peacekeeping Agent, Cybernetic Scoundrel, and all around disruptor of the normal order of things. |
|
| Back to top » |
|
|
Lucas Pallanén-Davad
Alex
Joined: 01 Aug 2009
Posts: 1153
Location: Aboard the Blight Leaper
|
| Posted: Tue, July 27th 2010 03:42am Post subject: |
|
|
| Morgan ZIM wrote: | | As far as numbers go, I blame the Star Trek vs. Star Wars debates and their rediculous need to bring numbers into it. If they'd just been able to stick to "Death Star!""Torpedoes!""Lightsaber!""Phaser!" and the like and kept it light hearted...but nope, they had to turn it into serious business. |
NOO!!!! Don't get that started. If I remember correctly, Ams is a huge fan of this kind of cross-fiction! Especially the numbers.
It's like his nirvana. |
|
| Back to top » |
|
|
Thomas Heckler
Butters
Joined: 07 Jul 2010
Posts: 150
Location: Not where you think... aboard the Elusive!
|
| Posted: Tue, July 27th 2010 04:17am Post subject: |
|
|
| Lucas Pallanén-Davad wrote: | | I wouldn't say I busted you, but I had to shift loyalties when you suddenly converted to the Great White Tree, if I remember correctly. |
Shh... don't judge me. That was the funniest thing I ever did, actually in one of the posts on here instead of going "Oh, Gods" or something BSGie like frakking I used "Oh, Great Tree help me," but no one caught it.
| Quote: | | VIII was a lot of fun, but I like the environment on Unity a little better. I would love to get some Imperial Remnant Plots going, I feel like that faction is slightly under-developed. (Though I enjoyed the crowning of the Emperor and Shayera's subsequent post... ) |
I believe that post is the wrong word, more like a book, a book filled with wingless soft core porn. I actually do have an idea for that, but a certain Moff right now has been slow on responding, hint, hint!
| Quote: | | All in all, I'm glad to have been there, and now here. It's fun and the people are great. It's weird to have bonded to people I've never really seen, but it happened. |
I have the same strange feeling, having been gone and then come back and everyone welcoming me back, as if I never left. Very strange. But, I'm glad to be back, for sure.
_________________
Captain of the Elusive, MC-90 Star Cruiser
|
|
| Back to top » |
|
|
Ams Jendob
Moff
Joined: 14 Jun 2009
Posts: 1579
Location: The Gala
|
| Posted: Tue, July 27th 2010 12:50pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Quote: | | I think the fact we're missing here is that in canon, otherwise what Lucas always intended, is that Star Wars never meant to be hard fiction. Its the fans like us who demanded it from him and we get things like Midi-chlorians for asking to much. A lot of Star Wars is about the characters and their adventures, not how the world works, that is what Star Trek does. |
Hmm. Quite true... mostly because of those butt-head Trekkies thinking their crappy Enterprise can blow up a Star Destroyer.
| Quote: | | At least, I found it hard to jump in the role as Captain, but have no actual mission because no one cares about strategy anymore, making awkward situations like me warping into Bilbringi for no reason happen. |
Well, at least captains mean something in this game. In VIII, you were a faction official, an admiral... or you twiddled your thumbs unless you felt like exploring the daily life of an officer or enlistedman in the given faction.
| Quote: | | Honestly, I loved tallying up my money, where else would I have been in charge of a faction I created from scratch that made billions (and I think at one point a trillion) credits a week? |
No one made a trillion credits a week. A year, perhaps, but not a week. <_< *grabs the retro-punishment stick*/
| Quote: | | It was awesome, but I let it become the dominant part of the game for me. Indeed, when I look back, it wasn't my fault because the game had been designed that way while it tried to be something above that. I feel like I actually wasted Brote as a character because I had such a hunger for more power through my complete conquest of Microsoft Spreadsheet. |
AH-HA! So it was Microsoft that did us in... it all makes sense now... I think.
| Quote: | | It was so much fun building up my factions, from nothing, into at least a small galactic power. I see now, that I'm wiser, it was fun while it lasted but a waste of a good story. I enjoyed the whole AU Battle of Endor idea, I don't know what everyone else is talking about. However, I feel indifferent toward bringing it back. What we do have now, while it is less realistic, seems to enforce itself rather than lead to players who change every other day so they can achieve galactic conquest. |
Agreed. Mostly, I just want to rewrite the badly-written original AU Endor. Maybe I'll turn into a little fanfic series, maybe not.
| Quote: | | Raw creativity and art, that is what this should be about, making the world come alive, playing our part in it and interacting with each other through our characters... yeah... That is how it should be. |
Pretty much that whole paragraph, but this stood out. Yes.
| Quote: | | As far as numbers and canon go, I blame the Star Trek vs. Star Wars debates and their rediculous need to bring numbers into it. If they'd just been able to stick to "Death Star!""Torpedoes!""Lightsaber!""Phaser!" and the like and kept it light hearted...but nope, they had to turn it into serious business. |
CAPTAIN PICARD KNEELING IN DEFEAT BEFORE CAPTAIN NEEDA IS SERIOUS BUSINESS, DAMMIT.
| Quote: | | I believe that post is the wrong word, more like a book, a book filled with wingless soft core porn. I actually do have an idea for that, but a certain Moff right now has been slow on responding, hint, hint! |
Wha--? Two posts in the entire game! C'mon!
Besides, she still has wings... <_<
_________________
Emperor Ams Jendob, Ruler of the Imperial Remnant
----"Moff", CMAC Dreamcrusher, Official Administrative Waldorf and Statler---- |
|
| Back to top » |
|
|
Maximillion Cyrus
dudop
Joined: 20 Jul 2009
Posts: 244
|
| Posted: Mon, August 02nd 2010 12:32am Post subject: |
|
|
What if we hijacked a more coherent universe and inserted all the characters from VIII into it as crossovers?
And if you think about it it makes some sense that it could do that... The Enterprise uses the eqivalent of proton beams (three I believe) which are a big deal in SW. And ISDs only have cannons that shoot bolts of plasma, which would be drastically weakened by the vacuum/cold of space (which would be acknowledged in ST). The Enterprise is also fast enough to keep the larger of the ISD's cannons from getting a shot in. In either universe... xD.
| Quote: | | unless you felt like exploring the daily life of an officer or enlistedman in the given faction. |
I was going through your post and saw this. I was actually planning to do that. I have problems with saving the galaxy every day, so in between I figured I'd have stuff like, you know, everyday life. Like Y&R does (what, it's boring to eat my lunch in the kitchen and my mom never misses an episode).
| Quote: | | into a little fanfic series |
Isn't that pretty much what this is? I'm just here because I'd rather have my stories be interactive, and so I can "talk" to people and make myself feel more human. |
|
| Back to top » |
|
|
Ams Jendob
Moff
Joined: 14 Jun 2009
Posts: 1579
Location: The Gala
|
| Posted: Mon, August 02nd 2010 12:47am Post subject: |
|
|
| Quote: | | What if we hijacked a more coherent universe and inserted all the characters from VIII into it as crossovers? |
Yeah, I've done that already.
| Quote: | | And if you think about it it makes some sense that it could do that... The Enterprise uses the eqivalent of proton beams (three I believe) which are a big deal in SW. |
No... not at all. The NX-01 Enterprise uses 3 five hundred gigajoule phase cannons. Typical deflector strength on a civilian ship in Star Wars is measured in billions of gigawatts (one gigajoule per second).
| Quote: | | And ISDs only have cannons that shoot bolts of plasma, which would be drastically weakened by the vacuum/cold of space (which would be acknowledged in ST). |
Actually, vacuum is an extremely good insulator... hence why we still have a Sun. Space is cold in temperature, but you cannot feel it because there is nothing to draw away the heat via convection and conduction. Additionally, the most extreme ST fansite I've seen lists a Galaxy-class starship's phaser capacity at 100,000 Terawatts. By comparison, the point-defense guns of an Acclamator-class assault ship fire 25,104 Terajoule bolts at an unknown rate of fire, but no less than 60 rounds a minute. If that's the case, each of an Acclamator's twenty-four defense cannons has over one-quarter the energy firepower of an entire Galaxy-class ship. So, four defense lasers against the full phaser output of the Enterprise-D and you have the defense guns edging ahead.
| Quote: | | The Enterprise is also fast enough to keep the larger of the ISD's cannons from getting a shot in. In either universe... xD. |
Depends on which Enterprise, really. An ISD is actually faster in acceleration than the Enterprise-C and maybe D. And even if the Feds could keep the six twin heavy turbolaser turrets away, they still have all of the smaller turbolasers with their mega- to gigaton yields. And they'll be much more capable of scoring repeated hits.
| Quote: | | I was going through your post and saw this. I was actually planning to do that. I have problems with saving the galaxy every day, so in between I figured I'd have stuff like, you know, everyday life. Like Y&R does (what, it's boring to eat my lunch in the kitchen and my mom never misses an episode). |
What's Y&R?
And yes, do not begin the ST/SW debate. I have done much research into the field.
_________________
Emperor Ams Jendob, Ruler of the Imperial Remnant
----"Moff", CMAC Dreamcrusher, Official Administrative Waldorf and Statler---- |
|
| Back to top » |
|
|
Morgan ZIM
Space Jawa
Joined: 01 Oct 2009
Posts: 536
Location: I am here -> *
|
| Posted: Mon, August 02nd 2010 12:58am Post subject: |
|
|
| Ams Jendob wrote: | | And yes, do not begin the ST/SW debate. I have done much research into the field. |
If you guys are going to insist on starting that old thing up, especially if you're going to do it in a manner that tries to apply solid numbers to things, could you please just take it to a new thread where it won't be off topic?
You know, so that those who don't care about debating such things can blissfully ignore it?
_________________
Morgan ZIM: Bounty Hunter, Gun for Hire, Freelance Peacekeeping Agent, Cybernetic Scoundrel, and all around disruptor of the normal order of things. |
|
| Back to top » |
|
|
Ams Jendob
Moff
Joined: 14 Jun 2009
Posts: 1579
Location: The Gala
|
| Posted: Mon, August 02nd 2010 12:59am Post subject: |
|
|
Actually, considering all of my old spec data for VIII was ported in from a Star Trek/Star Wars game I never got off the ground...
_________________
Emperor Ams Jendob, Ruler of the Imperial Remnant
----"Moff", CMAC Dreamcrusher, Official Administrative Waldorf and Statler---- |
|
| Back to top » |
|
|
Zero
Jase
Joined: 15 Jul 2009
Posts: 226
|
| Posted: Mon, August 02nd 2010 03:13pm Post subject: |
|
|
I miss Zero's armor. I miss having people to post with Zero *nudges Ams*
I don't miss me and Alex's hate fests
I also don't miss the Unknowns or my bipolar plot ideas for Jase
Actually, Unity is great for Jase. Being a cranky old man is the best thing that ever happened to him.
_________________
Randoth "Zero" Subdern- Stormtrooper Sergeant, Aurek Company, Second Platoon
"I love the Imperial Army! I can blow things up and they usually don't yell at me for it!" |
|
| Back to top » |
|
|
Ams Jendob
Moff
Joined: 14 Jun 2009
Posts: 1579
Location: The Gala
|
| Posted: Mon, August 02nd 2010 03:28pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Quote: | | I miss Zero's armor. |
NEVAHS!
| Quote: | | I miss having people to post with Zero *nudges Ams* |
I thought... hmm. Can't do anything till late today (I shouldn't be on right now), but I'll see what I can do.
_________________
Emperor Ams Jendob, Ruler of the Imperial Remnant
----"Moff", CMAC Dreamcrusher, Official Administrative Waldorf and Statler---- |
|
| Back to top » |
|
|
Maximillion Cyrus
dudop
Joined: 20 Jul 2009
Posts: 244
|
| Posted: Mon, August 02nd 2010 05:30pm Post subject: |
|
|
Okay. I'm not sure those units can all be directly compared (energy used up vs. actual output, etc.) but that sounds pretty convincing. I blame ILM for my mistake. In the movies everything looked wimpy.
Come to think of it, I liked having all the made-up starship classes n the other game, and that one faction on the space station... Nespis or something. I apologize for calling them space nazis that one time, they're actually pretty cool. It's nice to have [somewhat] realistic politics and not just one big faction that keeps fissioning itself to create enemies (Republic spawns CIS, turns into Empire, spawns Alliance, Alliance becomes New Republic, Empire splits into True Empire and the Remnant, all unrelated factions have no significant impact on the story) and they broke that circle somewhat.
Of course, too many would be a nightmare. |
|
| Back to top » |
|
|
Ams Jendob
Moff
Joined: 14 Jun 2009
Posts: 1579
Location: The Gala
|
| Posted: Mon, August 02nd 2010 10:25pm Post subject: |
|
|
Those were all output figures.
| Quote: | | It's nice to have [somewhat] realistic politics and not just one big faction that keeps fissioning itself to create enemies (Republic spawns CIS, turns into Empire, spawns Alliance, Alliance becomes New Republic, Empire splits into True Empire and the Remnant, all unrelated factions have no significant impact on the story) and they broke that circle somewhat. |
True, that was kinda neat.
| Quote: | | Of course, too many would be a nightmare. |
Let me correct you. Not "would be." "Is." It happened.
_________________
Emperor Ams Jendob, Ruler of the Imperial Remnant
----"Moff", CMAC Dreamcrusher, Official Administrative Waldorf and Statler---- |
|
| Back to top » |
|
|
Maximillion Cyrus
dudop
Joined: 20 Jul 2009
Posts: 244
|
| Posted: Mon, August 02nd 2010 10:39pm Post subject: |
|
|
| I didn't know watts could measure anything but electricity. I guess school is pretty vanilla these days. |
|
| Back to top » |
|
|
Ams Jendob
Moff
Joined: 14 Jun 2009
Posts: 1579
Location: The Gala
|
| Posted: Mon, August 02nd 2010 10:42pm Post subject: |
|
|
Watts measure power, in J/s. That can be heat, light, electricity, sound, mechanical... any form of power (in the physics sense) uses the unit Watt.
_________________
Emperor Ams Jendob, Ruler of the Imperial Remnant
----"Moff", CMAC Dreamcrusher, Official Administrative Waldorf and Statler---- |
|
| Back to top » |
|
|
Morgan ZIM
Space Jawa
Joined: 01 Oct 2009
Posts: 536
Location: I am here -> *
|
| Posted: Tue, August 03rd 2010 02:21am Post subject: |
|
|
| Ams Jendob wrote: | | Quote: | | It's nice to have [somewhat] realistic politics and not just one big faction that keeps fissioning itself to create enemies (Republic spawns CIS, turns into Empire, spawns Alliance, Alliance becomes New Republic, Empire splits into True Empire and the Remnant, all unrelated factions have no significant impact on the story) and they broke that circle somewhat. |
True, that was kinda neat. |
I don't know, the whole "let's go out and recruit/blackmail/threaten new members to our organization" just felt wrong. Maybe it's just me, but I've tended to think of things going the other way - potential new member states will contact an organization and request membership.
Having to go out and ask planets to join just reeks of desparation or seems to send a message that you're not good enough for people to want to join on their own. And to threaten or blackmail would seem to give other organizations every reason to step in and say "Hey, you want to join us instead? We won't threaten you!"
_________________
Morgan ZIM: Bounty Hunter, Gun for Hire, Freelance Peacekeeping Agent, Cybernetic Scoundrel, and all around disruptor of the normal order of things. |
|
| Back to top » |
|
|
Thomas Heckler
Butters
Joined: 07 Jul 2010
Posts: 150
Location: Not where you think... aboard the Elusive!
|
| Posted: Tue, August 03rd 2010 03:59am Post subject: |
|
|
| Morgan ZIM wrote: | | Ams Jendob wrote: | | Quote: | | It's nice to have [somewhat] realistic politics and not just one big faction that keeps fissioning itself to create enemies (Republic spawns CIS, turns into Empire, spawns Alliance, Alliance becomes New Republic, Empire splits into True Empire and the Remnant, all unrelated factions have no significant impact on the story) and they broke that circle somewhat. |
True, that was kinda neat. |
I don't know, the whole "let's go out and recruit/blackmail/threaten new members to our organization" just felt wrong. Maybe it's just me, but I've tended to think of things going the other way - potential new member states will contact an organization and request membership.
Having to go out and ask planets to join just reeks of desparation or seems to send a message that you're not good enough for people to want to join on their own. And to threaten or blackmail would seem to give other organizations every reason to step in and say "Hey, you want to join us instead? We won't threaten you!" |
YES! I just wish we could add story into how planets join and leave factions, not one by one, but in offensives determined by complex battles with winners and losers who serve to move the RPG along through a larger storyline that we all take part in, in some little or big way. That is how I feel, to keep things inclusive and fun.
_________________
Captain of the Elusive, MC-90 Star Cruiser
|
|
| Back to top » |
|
|
|
|
